Midday with J&W: Attorney Stacy Shaw talks traffic tickets given out to minorities and whites

The Jayme & Wickett Podcast
Monday, May 21st

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Article other L five don't forget we have a keyword cash story this hour the word is jacket. CK ET. Text the word jacket the 72881. For your chance to win 1000 dollars will. All our to do that plus have another word for you just before 12 o'clock here on KM BZ. On story comes to us out of the Kansas City Star and a very in depth look that they did at who is getting tickets are traffic tickets in the city of Kansas City, Missouri. August analyze traffic tickets from 2017. Issue by Casey police and processed by the Kansas City municipal court. And found significant racial disparities amongst those ticket so can't misery is 30% African American. African Americans blacks got 60% of the traffic tickets that were issued. Kansas City is 59% whites but whites accounted for 30%. Of the tickets that were issue got to sell. It flips its disproportionate numbers for blacks whites cat and among city residents speeding is overwhelmingly beat top traffic offense for all races except African Americans. The top traffic ticket charge for African Americans is state license plate required followed by no insurance and then speeding. They went out at the zip code 64130. Is the most common home zip code for Kansas City and getting tickets that's an area. Roughly ordered by 39 street to the north near the sale of 63 and your eye for 35. That one zip code. Accounted for 10% of all home zip codes for Kansas City residence issued a traffic ticket and is 91%. African American according to census information. We are working to get on the phone Stacey shop who is with Stacy shot & Associates that Kansas City law firm. Specializing in traffic cases and she says these are economic based crimes they are not or driver crimes will we get her we're gonna let her explain. Exactly what she means by that she's got a couple of suggestions. As ours how to address that. I think she doesn't do though is blamed police for writing tickets we're talking about an area that is higher crime. That also has that zip code also has Seve on highway running street. When you have more crime we call for more police to be in those areas which is exactly what to Kansas police department has done. When you have more police and those areas they are more likely to write more tickets what seems on odd to a lot of us and we'll have her explain. Is why it's not speeding now that more African Americans are being ticketed for that its other infractions instead. She's gonna be coming in studio just and a little bit easier. It'll be just in to get her take. Part of me and a lot of people. On FaceBook have said. Why does the color of skin matter. If you have expired tags. Do police are there people are being profiled because they're tags because their skin is the wrong color it's because your tag is the wrong color. And I outcry a crime I mean exactly I got pulled over for having expired tags it was in Prairie Village it was nowhere near. Downtown Kansas City it was in Prairie Village but I got a ticket for a I think there'll be a lot of people that would be just and hearing. What she has to say about that and again. It is is does it matter what your skin color relax if you care why why does that matter I I really am looking forward to having that discussion. On it's a matter. I guess to me in part because of the number of people that are racking up debt and a number of unpaid tickets that they have. It's money the city is not getting it's also people that you have occupying jail space simply because they can't pay traffic tickets after awhile. On which is a problem then because that you don't have space in the jail for people that genuinely commit crimes that we need to have them behind bars. But is it not alarming that you have you know a complete flip when it comes to the proportion of the population verses in traffic tickets that are issued. And some of that could just be blamed on exactly what we sent that on. That you have more police in those areas because there's higher crime in their form or those people are getting traffic tickets. It's funny somebody on on attacks on texted just before we went to break the top of the hour asking the question saying. I've done right along with other police departments and saying a high proportion of people. Get tickets for not having insurance or four on expired tax and asked the question is it possible. Because people who were low income on our horror don't have the money. You have to make a choice between paying the electric bill and paying rent and paying your tax. They choose rent. In this story I mean the initial story from the star talks about all by the name of arena Bryant and you can read it it's a honor FaceBook page. She's got three kids she works two jobs. Just 26. Outstanding traffic tickets. She's not necessarily a battered unsafe driver. Last year she was stopped seven times and sided with thirteen traffic tickets by Casey PDE five tickets for. No insurance six tickets for driving on a suspended license and two tickets for expired tax. Part of me says wires your license suspended part of me says why don't you have insurance. And part of me says you know why he of expired tax is high. She can't afford to pay them possibly on and so and that's why I assume Stacy shots calling this an an economic problem because you can't afford to pay it. Seek another ticket and you can't afford to pay the ticket and I yeah the ticket costs on top of everything else. If you wanna hire a lawyer to help you lot of that that cost more money which is why Stacey says they set aside money at her firm to help people pay these costs without having to pay for a lawyer. Somebody's in just on the tax on people who are white have more money to pay the lawyers to help them get out the tickets. I would argue people who are have more money this is why don't work calling it an economic problem. It just happens that in these zip codes that were talking about you have a high proportion of African Americans and higher proportion of people were low and. She the woman in the story is quoted as saying. Now it's paid this ticket or pay the light bill it's paid the ticket or pay the rent it's adding another built on top of what I already have. As it as much of the sympathizer is I am to this and again we look forward to having. Attorney Stacy Sean Miller to discuss this further. Part of me says. You should they got the initial ticket an enemy of your first wonder if that yeah they got to snowball rolling and I understand look I had an expired tag ticket and I've had one lead to another and I've had to get out of it I've had to go to court and fortunately. You know. I ate and I don't have these the the economic issues that ms. bright does in this story. But if you're gonna have a three bedroom house you gonna have three kids and you're gonna have a car you got to figure out a way him come up with. Money to pay for all of not everybody has a three bedroom house hockey does in this or not all of them now and somebody to Saddam attacks line on. Don't drivers can't afford it take the bus actually Stacy shot challenged in the members of her firm. To only take public transit for a week and she says some of them couldn't do it. Some could work on time and take buses that would take their kids to daycare and then take the bus we don't have the public transit here. For everybody to say we'll just take public transit a little better but this town we don't we are not set up with the infrastructure for public transit to make that a good option. I understand. Title fight to survive don't have kids. But I don't know if I could get to and from work on a consistent basis. You know. On a bus schedule I know that exactly used to work who you was in the seat before I was even have a car he would take a bus every day to and from here no he took a bus to last stop on that cap raft and picked him up honestly railing so that he didn't have to walk the other half or whatever. Half mile as a recovered at here and here in the north land could you get to and from work would you have any idea idea no clue no clue I mean I would take this there's a bus transfer halfway down the street car line that's what I would take a that I wouldn't have a clue how to get up to mission I have no idea. I I get their people were saying well don't have a car he can't afford it you need a card at a dot. Because of the bus doesn't go where your place of employment is you need that cart have the jobs that you can feed your kids. So you can pay the tickets and pay the insurance and that it's a vicious cycle on. Till I think we need to have a little bit of compassion for people who don't have the same level of money that we do on a lot of a lot of what I'm witnessing right now and the techs on is well to drugs. If we want to help people get out of situations like this and if we want to improve the Lankan matters our city we need to do to port. But the problem is with that statement Jamie while I agree with you. That that there are a lot of people. In this cop in this country. That don't want to pull the don't care they don't care that poor black people can't get their kids to school like the people on the tax is it just don't people or don't don't have a car they don't. Yeah you do care because you had a negative view but so honestly think true because your texting me telling me that you don't like getting your saying more than just don't drive obviously you care. 5767798. Erin you're on KM BZ what's up. He placed a big game when cupid prizes don't drive here that you go here. I've ever play stupid games swing stupid prizes before its original. At the see that's the guy talked about writer argued that you've never been in the position of having to choose between your car insurance and food on your table that's my point. People like Erin don't care that a woman. And I don't wanna judge oh absolutely they don't care they wanna judge because. Eric called in to say play stupid games win stupid prices which is becoming an incredible cliche used by. By by people. Bryant is playing this stupid game by driving a suspended license she's trying to do right for kids now whatever putter in the position. To get to that point we can analyze we can talk about an attorney Stacy Sean Miller will join us up Leeds studio very shortly she's on her way. But. I don't think Jerry cares anybody sit in at 39. Introduced. Or whatever is pork and asked to drop did make a choice pay the light bill or pay a ticket air doesn't care. Then don't care but don't be a jerk about it. I mean I'm not saying you have to care. Neither do you really don't have to care cash hope never an opposition. Went down one might be where you I've never been in that position of having two strong grass about food are having to stress about. Rent verses any other bill having to decide what do I take the chance of not paying my car insurance. Are doing pace something else or fearing getting another ticket because they might take my license away and then driving on suspended license. Because I have to get to work but the buses and go there or doesn't go to remind daycare is I mean. Pete go through things not not. I just took you're never in that position. I 7677. NA get to Samir calls again also quoted in the story in the star attorney Stacy Sean Miller who has some solutions not just talk about. The problems which we will get into as well as I understand where some people are coming from the woman's got five tickets no insurance six tickets for driving on suspended license. And two tickets for expired tags and kind of split on this. Thousand dollars is Janet. If it's really don't lie it's a CK ET sat in the word to seven to anyone for your chance of a thousand dollars. Start talking about the story in the Kansas City Star and to those of you who are on the line if you'd like to lie on your one continue if not outward toward Estes and studio here but yet to be star analyzed traffic tickets from last year. Get up in Kansas City and here's a look at that. African Americans make up 30% of the population of Casey now but they accounted for 60% of the traffic tickets written. Whites account for 59%. Of the population but account for 30% of the tickets written. A pretty big disparity here and instant help explain it and top of it or about it is Stacy shock who runs a lot Furman town. You'd about quiet time to helping people who have gotten traffic tickets like best and I. On we're gonna get to the issue of why people should care because a lot of people are acting like they don't or shouldn't. But you call these economic based crimes not poor driver crimes can you explain that while. Well 61%. Of the tickets are analyzed and 64130. Had to do with someone having money so no insurance they don't have the money to pay insurance. Bad ten tax no license plate which means that. And they didn't have enough money to tag their car and improper tags not that many panther car or driving while suspended an a lot of times we do. Heinz thousands of driving while suspending cases and I'm going to say over 98% of them are because people didn't have the money to pay their tickets. And a lot of times people are not realizing that. And this data was only from Kansas City it did not include independents break town green and you. And blue springs any other demographic and so. I think that'd skewed because they only looked at Kansas City they're not realizing that this is happening. Too am low income whites Hispanics. Asians anyone that has a a lower income that would not be able to afford to tag their car. They would have had the same experience and that is one thing that I went over with the Kansas City Star. So I think people should care because I mean even if you're thinking from the article that people have this issue. Don't look like Q they absolutely do we have a very. I'm racially diverse practice. And I'm a lot of our clients that have are pulled over for thirteen fourteen tickets sometimes they're from independence and they blond hair blue eyes. Our society. Yeah I give it that aren't so I can't text line up in front of me and and you know this is going a lot of people have called an anti accident and sad. Well don't want the first time you know to all field your insurance a lot of people are saying look I have to budget I had to make hard decisions. I choose to pay my car insurance I don't get that ticket would use it the people who say he's had to yours. On the well I think that responsibility only goes so far so a great example and that I gave in an interview that did not make the cut. Was that I met a mom actually two month. Do. The your significant other left them they have 21 passport it's one has five kids. They're now down to one income they had to get to work. On they had a traffic ticket could afford to pay it. And it just went to warrant suspended their license after thirty days they still have the same job but they still have the same for kids. That portion of their income has not changed but now they have an additional expense like that ticket that they can't afford to pay. So it ends up being a cycle we're OK I can't afford to pay the speeding ticket which was 225 dollars. I usually budget I'm usually irresponsible person. But I have this additional expense and I can't pay for now Miley synthesis and I get pulled over for driving while suspended case I may go to jail I may not now that's an additional 4500 dollar fine for now you have 600 dollars. That is set aside because they don't have a license may be their insurance gets canceled. You know or they try to pay the ticket they can afford to pay the insurance and the ticket. Then there insurance lapses and if they get pulled over again it's going to be that same cycle so it's not about responsibility. It's if you get one bad break. Mean most of us are 123 paychecks away from the on the streets that's a reality and so we. I mean when you talk about compassion they could easily they view you get pulled over for three tickets it's out of your budget. Now you're in and really bad situation and is not the treasure. I think having this conversation it it's almost as if for painting low income people in bad light when they're bad people we give you get pulled over can't afford it like you said eager niners licenses suspended. You're a bad person when you just hit no pun intended to speed bump on the way is there no leniency in the court system for these kinds of things or is one of those were any. You break the law you gotta pay the price and if you can't make it worse. Well there is leniency but a lot of times people don't know their options most people that go into warrants status it's because of fear. They were afraid to call a lawyer they are afraid to ask the judge any questions. They said you know I know that I'm not going to be able to afford this process I'm just going to wait until I can't sedan and makes the process of I mean it makes the issue worse. Traffic tickets are the number one way that people get introduced to the criminal justice system people realize that people go to jail for traffic tickets more than anything else in Kansas. Yet number that popped her reasons why people are bonded out in Kansas City are driving while suspended tickets no insurance tickets and domestic violence cases. I mean so the top two are driving both suspended and no insurance. It's a Stacy Sean studio we're deeper into your brother segment yes you're not gone anyway. I hit a couple of things to talk about is on sort of the correlation between distant god and and zip codes where we have more people getting tickets and as being higher crime areas. And police because we want police to be there than we have more please write tickets because there there. And you propose several solutions success we have several people that sampled just on part camp for all the answers as public transit we really haven't there's talk about. Happy Monday to yes it is 1133. We've got Stacy shot attorney. At law in studio is over story from the Kansas City Star we saw this weekend. There is a highly disproportionate number of African Americans being pulled over for traffic tickets and being issued traffic tickets in Kansas City, Missouri to start looked at data from 2017. And found that despite African Americans making up 30% of the population of the city they get 60% of the tickets and were talking before the break about on MacCulloch kind of the spiral that you get into when you get one ticket and they can't pay that or you got to miss work in order to go fight the ticket. Can't take it out work if you do that's gonna cost you money. You call these economic based crimes and you offered a couple of solutions and what I appreciate about the comments he made the star was that. You don't blame police for riding the tickets. You know police are there we deploy police to higher crime areas to help deal without your more policemen they're gonna write more tickets. Key about the experiment did you had a staff do with public transit. It only lasted today if it less than half today and it was supposed to be longer than that I challenged my staff all of them have drivers places that the time. And Q take public transit to work either public transit but you could not use your car you could usually isn't because I want them to experience what our clients are going through. And if they did not have a license. That one of my assistants who lived in independents. And she would've had to commute two or three hours. In the freezing cold and she would have been either late to work or having to wait in the cold like 5 in the morning to be there on time to her dad ended up taking her. And another and another assistant works north of the river she had a child in daycare she was not going to be able to be to work on time and be at the daycare on time fishy at. The sheet that you know what. I'm going to have to drive because of my child comes first and you know I'm just gonna have to take the risk that I get pulled over with a suspended license one person was able to block. I took the bus. I got lost on the way home at like 10 o'clock at night outcry. Is the coolest man of the year. It was hole it was a horrible experience because. The bus system and getting from where I live from downtown to where I live it wasn't straight Ford had to take several changes. And it took for ever and I had to walk maybe three or four blocks from my house to the bus stop. So it was not like you know New York or Chicago where you know it's a fluid transit system. There are you know some people that cannot get to work on and home in to care for their children. Using our public transit systems and that's one solution proposed I public transit for ports keeps sliding scale. Or registrations that is now that is a new idea hopefully it takes flight. This Plainfield means that you know taxes would be based on your income so if you could prove that you are low income person. On the that you were working so you are one of the thousands and thousands of working poor people in Kansas City that you would. Pay less on your taxes and someone that could afford to pay it. That would mean more people learn compliance because if you don't have money you're just like a paint attacks so it's either save. Two years or whatever because that's also a compound in situation you have a car and it's not registered he's still that registration from the previous year. So then it becomes a problem where people just yet or will not tanker car. So people compliant that are working in need to wait to get to work. Also attack amnesty. That hopefully that takes up tag amnesty if you have a car that has not been tags like he's mr. registration for one or two years allow people to get caught up. Because when you get and that's spiral it's almost impossible unless you get a big chunk of money to get yourself. Another a lot of people probably in their car and I'm sure the text line is full of it asking you Stacy why don't we have to change the rules. Why lies why should be any different for someone who makes less than 24000 dollars if I make over a 100000 just don't have a car why why should we change the rules. Well. America is founded on. Opportunity sometimes that's equal opportunity but when you talk about equality there are people that are systemically. Impoverished OK so if you go to 64130. Or Kansas City public school district. Does schools in Kansas City public school district. A lot of them have been closed they're barely accredited OK so when you are in Kansas City public school district if you can't afford to go. To a private school or you don't get into a charter school leader you are graduating. With less resources than someone that is at least some OK so even though you're saying okay equal opportunity those two people are not equal. Just because of where they. Where they grew up in it doesn't have anything to do with race at all has to do with your zip code and their resources that are put in your zip code. At least he a candidate talked a great deal about economic parity and how the Kansas City municipal budget is spent. There were some zip codes that got I think a 134 something thousand dollars. And that was a poor districts a richer district like 500000 dollars and so when you're talking about decisions that. On the City Council is making or where I'm like cerner cerner is a billion dollar revenue generating campus. That is not in six for 130 those jobs were not. And segmented for the people that were living along the answer wrote a lot of people in Johnson County. Got those jobs and so when you're talking about changing the rules it's really to put people on equal footing and we all want to be successful the more. Resources that we give to someone. To make sure that their car's tag to make sure that they're not going in and out of jail that productive citizen will also increase the tax base in there's a code. So it's a small step. And it seems like we're being unfair but the more resources that we give to people that truly need them the stronger our community will be as well. Here's a question from the tax on that actually goes in a positive direction and has been effective drug. Nine asks short of pain free person's insurance every month is there anything that those of us who were not affected by economic base crimes. Can do to help those who are. That is a great question. And I don't necessarily have. The answer to that because I'll admit it would be. I'm that there are signed not very limited resources. That have been created for people that and need legal help but there has not been anyone that helps people paint protect. So I think you know I mean he needs to be a nonprofit organization. That would take up that cause I think that's amazing I'm really appreciate that somebody asked that because I never thought of that before. One of the comments on our FaceBook page someone has set up a legal fund me. For the woman that is quoted in the story. Lorena Bryant there's actually go find me for hurt the woman who has received 26 outstanding traffic tickets to go along with baton at least 11 group or one person reaching out for one person. That's amazing. Definitely I know that I mean I'm not gonna ask anyone to do anything that I'm not going to do myself so. As a result of that comment I'm going to personally reach out to nonprofits to see if we can provide resources. For people that are struggling with economic base I think he is so much to. Says hey did you ever you are you started a revolution right now had any contact with Lucas or any of the council members that served an area or Kansas usery police because an alarm the disparity is really. I have. I have not. I've not and since that article came out yesterday it was so well written I really appreciate them actually reaching out to you. A lawyer and I this is a champion I mean I've been championing this cause for almost eight years now this is the big biggest thing that we fight against. Is disparities. In the community when it comes to legal representation. And so. I've not had an opportunity to do it to do that yet but that is on our agenda. Amnesty triple our educational. Outreach in 6413032. Into eight which. Are the three most affected zip codes because a lot of people are affected just because they don't know they're right they don't know why they should have an attorney what affects traffic tickets. And we'll have if they're not taking care properly. So the bottom line is if you get pulled over and let's say you're not. Super well off financially. It's not the be all Lendl they should contact a lawyer they should try to get this out because as you said things can snowball and then you're talking about like and fortunately this woman in her situation. She's got three kids she's got two jobs but she's got 26 to. It doesn't do it on your first ticket. Not on your tenth before snow balls and now suddenly you've racked up 5000 dollars lawyer fees that you can't afford. Oh absolutely she has the tickets that I think she. Has I took some time and looked at them she has like over 7000 dollars for the legal fees with those 26 tickets. OK so because a lot of them are serious. On some of them at the find to be really expensive because she got in this particular case because she be considered indigent probably. Indigent and she has driving while suspended which are a jail able offense she may be able to qualify for a public defender. At the municipal level and then she could get either community service or probation so there are options that Kansas City municipal court not the outlying municipal courts though. That assist people that are indigent and have these issues to get them back compliant. I have one final question for. Why did you choose this branch of law to get into took all the different me coming out of law school. I read your bio and Texas other and and and went to school on the other side of the state Saint Louis oh why did you choose this because it doesn't seem liking a lot of high profile big money making clients why did you choose this route well. I started my law firm at the swap shop in attendance OK okay. So I know does disturb my traffic locker and I was looking at which in which taught and I won it. On something that would be a good bit at the product offering for having a law firm and it and at the swap and shop OK so as civil everyone can take a chance on traffic ticket I only charge a hundred dollars for a traffic ticket. And as I started getting more clients I recognize that it was really a social justice issue. A lot of people are being criminalized. For driving while suspended ticket so. If you hit three convictions reports conviction. And qualifies you to you have a felony so they were charged with eight felony for driving while suspended. And so I sent this so many people are going to jail and so many people are being. Adversely impacted by traffic ticket I have to stake in this area so we do a lot of education a lot of outreach began. Hundreds of thousands of dollars in financial aid and discounting cases for low income people that don't qualify for public defenders because I believe that. This is where we can really make a lot of change in the community and some everyone has traffic tickets we represented. Former NFL players. You know singing star's. Doctors engineers and people that are in homeless shelters. And so it's not something that it only affects one. And enjoyed having less and think Q. For taking time to have me on because you could have said hey not our issue it doesn't affect tireless leadership. But it always does well diet does it does with some of the comments. And said that it doesn't affect them but you and inject compassion into an area that a lot of people don't considers important. Is really awesome thank you so much for Stacy show. All law dot com is the website doing more information if you need to thanks amber coveted we appreciate that thank you Stacey shot in studio that day with Jamie and wake it. Ask you something about. Well we had to get into the Houston issue these Santa Fe shooting in there's a law in Texas that may shock you want to get to Stacy shopper joining us. Very interesting stuff. And hopefully you'll learn a little bit about it you didn't see that interview on her FaceBook page. FaceBook dot com slash 91 KM BZ and read the story in Kansas City Star because. Aired wrangling tells trying to really good job adopt not talking about. And it's not a race thing it is socio economic situation and that was good stuff we appreciate CC coming end. Art there's no easy way to go from that to what we're gonna move on to Hogan. There are a lot of new details that are out today about the shooting and Santa Fe Texas that we start the show with. Late last week on Friday. Through some of the details for you because I think it's on. Pretty compelling for lack a better term. If you have children in the room I don't know that some of those is going to be. Easy for kids here frankly it's not an easy for adults to hear. We're gonna go through Wyatt the suspect I'm not gonna name what that seventeen world. Could get in terms of punishment he is being charged with an adult of your cult we have ten people were dad. As a result of the shooting he has been charged as an adult with capital murder and aggravated assault on a peace officer because one of the people who was injured was he. Officer at school. He. Because of a Supreme Court ruling cannot get the death penalty we'll explain why. On and because he's only seventeen he couldn't and being parole at some point he could be up for parole for forty years so he could still live quite a while after he is released and it got us talking this morning. About what. We shades on an and I know that it was a Supreme Court ruling by it from aid. Just from a principle standpoint. If you support the death penalty for children who commit mass murderer like best. He is seventeen years old on and the Supreme Court ruling said that on. High Court ruling banned execution of criminals younger than eighteen they considered to be cruel unusual punishment as a five to four ruling in a case that came before the Supreme Court. Where they sat putting kids younger than eighteen to death was cruel and usual punishment under the eighth and fourteenth amendment's. So we're not gonna put him to death. Seventeen girls who kills ten people and this is. I don't know the legal standard is for premeditated but this was not a wake up that morning and decide to ship the school and this was planned. Third journals that show how he was getting us out. He had done quite a bit of research into mass shootings in the past. And when you look at. Everything we know backhand he had an affection for knives and guns which does not automatically make a school shooter. But there were signs there on and and for sure there was a bit of thought incidents at a time. Within a year he would have turned eighteen you know we seventeen years old and so heady waited a year to do this you would have been eligible for the death penalty. I'll like the idea of suggesting that you put a child to death. We talk a lot about second chances and wicked night and vocal and our opposition to the death penalty on the show in the past. But it's it's a valid questions to be asking. Because he. Here we have again the partly she was nineteen that's different situation. But we have the US Supreme Court saying even if you are seventeen years and eleven months and 29 days. If you worse younger than eighteen when you committed the crime you can't be given a penalty for and it is. Beyond reason to me that he could be world it's. Not like the person he can get forty years and he crawled its. So he could get out at 57. In theory 5750. Share. And still I mean that's relatively young I don't know what you do at that point I don't know all of your year I guess he can get training and it. Pluto be slower I've no idea I don't know what happens over the course of four years. Do you think that this should that this rule is a good one. That you cannot. Give a seventeen year old the death penalty I can't find where his birthday is I've seen multiple reports different answers I've seen several that say August. And and that makes my brain starts for turning as well. I just got done watching that documentary on Netflix that date has been talking about evil genius and that that percent and it I don't want to give away the end but the person and it knew the laws and what not did this kids know that. If he commits a crime and I don't know maybe I'm just. Spit balling here. Did he know that if he commits this heinous act that he'd been documenting in his journals. On his social media pages in his head did he know that if he commits but before he turns eighteen that's Texas State law means he's not. Going to die federal Supreme Court ruling guy does not going to die this is not state law which is which is our initial confusion yeah Texas being a very pro death penalty state. This is a 54 Supreme Court ruling that said it's cruel and unusual punishment. I don't know why can't be given life is. That's that that I think it's tech satellite state law do you think a seventeen year old kid. Should be given the death penalty for committing an act like what happened in Santa Fe Texas last Friday 5767798.