Fostering Hope - A listen into the world of Foster Care & Adoption

Fostering Hope
Sunday, September 17th

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Welcome to fostering hope a program that opens the door into the world look Foster care and adoption sponsored by Foster adopt connect. You'll hear stories from all facets of Foster care. For the kids who've experienced the system firsthand from parents who were taking on the challenges and rewards of creating for ever Bailey's four Foster children. And from child welfare workers in policy makers who work within the system while also working to make it better besides you're an important stories you'll learn how you can help society's most vulnerable children in big ways or small. Please welcome our host the youth program supervisor at Foster adults connect. Nathan Ross. Welcome to you fostering hope I'm your host Nathan Ross who with my co host different towns and hyped and high Havoc on name and it's going great how. How are you. I'm amazing awesome yeah we're joined with April didn't when he today from the Donaldson adoption institute hi April. Hi Nate then hi guys how are you. We're doing well how are you. Thank you for being on what does can you start by telling us a little bit about yourself who you are what you do with Donaldson. Sure my name's April and then of course. I am the trans racially about the person I'm very much dedicated to aid to. Research advocacy and education. Surrounding Procter adoption that's my main. Common goal at the adoption to cute but I could always been an adopted person and always been curious then. Interested in the at different stages of my life my identity and how that infinity has informed. I racial identity hasn't formed. Really is sixteen to adoption by the professional and personal. Match up really of my experience that option. And so through Donald sit and are you doing a lot of research and particularly. What does research look like with in terms of adoption and more specifically with transracial adoption. Sure we've the only year I mean what are unique things about the as a kid to work is that we. Really calm her. All. Angles of adoption of cost care what that means is we really. Focused on you know. The holistic element though everything from race class and culture differences. Two while what. We're doing for our first birth parent. Q what were you doing for adoptive parent and you turn everything in between though. We've done a fair amount out of work around at least class and culture. Are beyond culture camp. Work really focused on an identity development and really raise some. Interest seeing it questions around. Identity formation and and that's. And now when you really interesting because it looked like there than they option identity right there near the speed that filled live. Your identity because you're an adopted person and then on top of that or we also found that. In addition to that identity around adoption there's also when their differences of race class. And culture. There it and could be another formation of an identity that happened and quite frankly that mine and I'm misunderstanding misperceptions. Around those experiences. Transracial adoptive people to leave look at that we've looked that. It did the personality. People young people of color in Foster parent what. It's sort of that looks like in terms of creating more opportunities for those for those children in adoption and making sure that they are resource this for them so we we also deconstructing deep and I keep you know years back and looking at. What was I think a lot of ball idea and term though. Trying to make sure there was. You know. Asking if some sort of equity in this optic parent adoption couldn't be looking at least classical to put it really really. What misinterpret it all lot of level. In as much as I am. Not being able to talk about race when when when making placements and you know not having that into consideration which was. You know part of the idea of sort of the idea that really was in practice. Not a healthy thing and Philip and in terms of have to talk about race got the culture when we're talking about adoption of can we can't leave that out and that's. The thought of some of the work we've done and all of that all of this is on our website. Adoption institute Cadillac. April could briefly and inform our listeners what is me what is. What did they get right in what did they get around. Sure I mean again. The truth about. It to really trying to. Not in heat and adoption based on differences of of a race. And in NF that it ended in the basic at after so it makes a lot of sense to not. Cannot put that in the barrier for adoption but at the same time what that did was create that. Kind of inability to have a transformational conversation about race and we know is that. Mean you really have to now more than ever speak openly talking about we cannot almost like you don't. Making it could of this color blind idea and that is not so in essence that sort of like reinforce the idea of you know color doesn't matter sprayed you get on the basic construct. Was really why. Eight but didn't really meet the challenges yeah it was trying to meet but I think it with a lot of bowl. Idea and Mary but in practice it it didn't it didn't it didn't work out well. And I and I think over time what happened is that. You know when this happened a lot of practice as you well know and and I I think if they've been up that up. A fear based in in the in the eight on the agency side that it is Peter feeling federal funds that they will get sanctioned and some of them happen because. They have been talking more about these things but I think it kind of put on my office seems pretty fearless individual within these agencies that they look. We've got to do what's right for kids and family. And end and they just do what they need to do though to make sure that there is a thief. And Trent transformational conversations happening about race not to ignore some of these things but to just. To meet him leaving kids where they are and be able to create healthy foundation. So it's complicated it truly is but nothing around different that the great class and culture. Is uncomplicated. I think so. And and so I know we only have a few minutes left it before we go to break but I was wondering if you could start I got a lot of questions for you based on just your opening statements Osborne should start by talking just about your own. Personal adoption experience and then you know we can continue this after break I'm but how has this directly impacted you. Chara I think health care for. Several months before and then it tempered tough to put them I was adopted. And it and we to a pre adoptive home of an adopted by that family. I don't know what my Foster parent rate was but I am I'm assuming their way but I don't know that they. No because of the rules and although you know that he could keep him. But my my got the Phillies play from New England. And I'd always I was adopted because I'm brown and they're not then there is a very simple. Conversation that happening actually know when it happened and I always knew I was adopted but I also thought. There are other brown kid to adopt it and every other family or your kid you think your show. Every other family woman is likely to back into her own bracket where all the about the can't always pray I'm really one of the only ones here. Now. You know adoption rate has been out of it that a part of my life for my whole life but. You weakening some of the realities of my experience has happened over how. I came in terms of really understanding the impact of not growing up that image that looks like you. And doesn't share your biology and there's there's a lot of complex enough to fulfill a lot of a lot of beauty of that that that I've discovered as well and and so we know when we talk. A little bit more about that this like whenever I learned from my experiences say that can eat white. I'm hoping that I'm hopeful impact announced. A practical impact on amnesty because. We need to we need is conversation Q and actions around. Well we know is right and just chill in the happen more than ever. It it used. So from the very interest thing that when you're talking now understand the impact of race over time and I just think that's so powerful I know. For myself being trans racially adopted dad when I first doctor I want the same I didn't care that my name. I didn't care all that much then my famous look different I am I didn't understand the importance of being. The links to my culture but as I've become an adult and especially after going as college student that has become more and more aware so for you April dispute what it. What can parents start doing to acknowledge the fact that my kid might say they don't care today. But when they're in their twenties they might care how we start having those conversations with our. Our young people. Well I think the conversation at very brought about the professional the young person parent training plan that the first I thought legally talk about the adoption identity in the the truth. The way that we talk about adoption and AM and somehow it's like. You know you're so lucky you were adopted and I get your point it's like it's pretty poignant powerful case that I kill hammock I wanna handling that. Make that make a lot of friends try to make a lot of sense that. But it also I think something is that that stirs in me that says we we deserve peak axiom of the U. You'll want to be great yeah edge and the truth is they think that when we have the conversation. And we move. That toward. You know just not what is it into gave up 61 problem but maybe but the bigger brighter idea to open up that conversation they look. You know this isn't the exact the only that you were born into or maybe the exact right family that you're adopted cute but. There are ways that that they only in professional they're supporting adult around that young person can can make it. War. Healthy for that for that young person they think there's a lot of layers to what you just said and I would say yeah I'm grateful for my family all day long and I love them and there are the only Palin have ever. You know men breed around the lake did differently in that beautiful space center of gravity. But there are some things that I I wish were different and it's hard to actually say that out loud because they always feel like it's an indictment on my family when it really is then it's more just the realization. Of the truth. Right and I've I've. I've gotten more rooted in that over the years. And that kind of reminds me just have conversations I've had with all of our kids that are. Going through or have gone through the adoption process. I didn't get to the knowledge the top of everything out right you've you've you've it's a massive wheat on the shoulders. All of us today what's happening with great class and culture and you know I never thought in a million years that it would be. We're typical eight could be mood in conversation about race and I thought I thought you know calling up in my growing up is that thought. It doesn't get much harder than that until model then and I'll tell you what it actually I'm part of that but I also think that sometimes you have to see. Really beef on that in order. To make an app that changes we need to make though it. It definitely you know something over time is that it now are either our our our wide wide open the week we can't. Not look away from some of the hardest things are being. We have to go to commercial break but when we come back I definitely wanna pick up this conversation and let's start talking about. That identity formation and some of the statements and misunderstandings around transracial adoption and Foster care. When we return on fostering hope. Okay. Welcome back to fostering hope. I am your host Stephen Ross who with my co host Jennifer towns and you're talking with people from the Donaldson adoption institute today about transracial adoption for her personal experiences or transracial adoptees. Thank you get people for being with us. Yeah baby yeah film had just want to make sure so before break we were talking about some your personal experience in some of the things that Jonathan has done around three search. On adoption in general. And then with transracial adoption so I was wondering if you could talk just about some of the statements misunderstandings. They had mentioned earlier I'm that's around. The conversation transracial adoption and make it hard to talk about race and culture in general today. Sure one of the things that. Was very surprising to me we get that perception survey 2000 Americans in 2015 and really went deep. A different. Perception then and stigma that that that people are understanding your hearing around the options. Karen when the most fascinating pieces we ask you this question about. Who do you think in terms of children and people are more likely to be relinquished her adoption and who of those children are more likely to get adopted. And of course what was brutal to eat with that of course it was less. What eight children with ease. Less likely to be relinquish for adoption and more likely to be adopted children of color were more likely to be. Linkage for adoption and less likely to be adopted and how much from the perception of people. Speaking about adoption. Though you know that that's that's like again these things you can't look away from their right in front of you when you won't that. You know that that's why in some cases we have. Such a tough time really talking about the things that are the most challenging in and I found. Especially this summer I did cute different. Than traditional family camps. Where I was his parents and in doing workshops is such a Palin left you know. Most of what I felt when I laughed when inspired. But there a few things that that had happened. At these camps I think well you know lean meat we have some really I didn't parents and we have found that. I just not keeping reality when you do. Having kicked the differently then and you know I always think parents they and I mean at the bottom my heart my job is not to make. You more terror I can't not an. And then you walk in the room like I want I want you leave feeling validated may be feeling inspired and may be feeling reflective on some of the things that you could be better but. I Gavin can make you more terrified about parenting then when you walked in the room right like that. That is not helpful but I will tell you if they terrifying and that we live in today. And we can't take lately some of these things that are happening to children of color and people on this country we have to be able to how. Not only conversations ongoing conversations. Not that the traditional family cannot get. You know once once in awhile but every day we have to be talking in some way very openly. About what's happening in a world in our home and around our kids in with our kids and using what we see badly on the TV and then in the news. And information and and jumping off place to have conversations with kids. You know I across the spectrum of ages because. We can't just ignore all of what's happening. Yeah I think that's all very important impact last week when we were in the middle of recording Nathan and I had a discussion about. I'm obviously I I know a lot of Foster parents and adoptive parents to. Well you know tape placement and adopt children of our range of race and ethnicity spent and also come into contact with a lot of parents. Do. Think that there are okay because they take placement or adopt children and the differing from there Allen they think that that's. All they need to do kind of this idea that. All I don't have any. I need to discuss race and certainly not racist because look at me I'm white I have a black child in my homeland black Ambilight child and my round. And and they don't have those discussions and they don't. Take a look at. One might be behind some of their own you know Bob Patten and I think that's that apathy. Is Adam warmer really losing a lot of opportunities to be better situations for our kids and care. All right I feel like you know one thing that I brought about with them having a conversation about it straight and it was like it starts that you would get the man in the mirror and say. You know I I have a racially Kennedy as a person every other racial identity right to look like. What are the things that I have. Experienced around different as a great classical to whether. Direct clean or indirectly what are some of the things that make me really uncomfortable. An and and how do you start to prepare yourself because that night you know I remember. He called the N word and comical I think I probably hold my mom once. And after I didn't really. I didn't I I realized she didn't know. How to edit that I mean. You know I think she was always like you know she was very very strong just like oh you know you get held you know like but it I didn't if there wasn't. That conversation about what that really meant and why when long and you know I think today eat the least of what could happen is your kid kick. Holman. He called the N word I like yeah I mean that's that's kinda like OK well that's that's that's gonna. Happen likely then you got to be ready but you can't be the first coming in here that work. Hate like it can't be when you can come home in a call that weren't so somehow we have to create space for these conversations are apparently it's okay. To feel the pain of that it's OKQ. You know not even understand that weren't so Kayla we had a whole conversation about that word. And Powell you know people of color used that word right anything you can end power and used that word in a certain kind of way but it really is hard for people understand that. Don't have the experience of being a person of color. And it's like that's just one tiny little area when there's many more nuances. And I I also think what we don't talk enough about it different because of class. Because. You'll inherent in adoption is 88 that you meet at ethic very much at different. A different classes I com. You know so we can't also forget about how hard it is to talk about that kind of stuff to about money and lack. And and and need not be Madden and I'm an inherently one pair is better than the other because. You know they have more me than and that's just and a lot of cases just not true. So there's a lot of stigma and on the instant common triggers around some of the language at some of these experiences but. You know all of that get all of that is meet meet meet you here on some level by actually opening it up discussion not being afraid of it. You know contended that the campaign cry from time to get angry but you gotta let all that stuff for it tweak it if you if you ever going to be able to beat did do the right thing on behalf of your kid. And I I've heard so many transracial adoptees. Have that same sentiment of the first time had a conversation with their parents who looks different. In the parents' response was something to the effect I'll love you threw it in the world doesn't matter as long as I care about you and how. The parents to send the Dow was. Perfectly valid in in some respects it it is but big young person almost always wished that there was more. I think in all the young Q what I'm mad at people like mad from this experience they wish that there was more of that in depth conversation about. What is the history and yeah like how do how do you combat and how do you address that. It just felt a little idea being Columbine and I interviewed my data that podcasts and you know he's that we that we just didn't see color and can't keep a man and a certain age and I creek speeches that I cast the happy conversation but sometimes they're really hard. And I you know. I know my dad Alan I want you pick like in need just you know airlift to give fiercely loved him and even in that moment I can't it does it give Meyer a dying and then lie within back I think you know it's well intended but a plague. Well when you don't see color and it felt like you don't see me eight. If you don't because you don't see me and and sell off and I just I eight I just feel like that's again that putt it there really is and it. It's an interest thing again if that I create the on some level I think even more inspiring is I think the of each color seeing it celebrating differences. And understanding that. It may be true within your family that you in quotes don't to color but you walk outside of the world. And your family is always gonna be inappropriately invaded by strangers seeing you as they different looking family. And anywhere all do when it happened. Sorry we have to go to break but when we come back we will for sure continue this conversation and get into some identity formation. So tune back in on fostering hope as we continue our conversation with April did what he from the Donaldson adoption and if welcome back to fostering hope I'm your host Nathan Ross threw my cohost of the county. You're talking with April from the Donaldson adoption institute today about transracial adoption for her personal experiences adopt in adopt. April before break we were getting into some in the misunderstandings the stigma as a how to help young people. On the journey of figure who they are and and how race relate to themselves we're if you talk to us. About identity formation what does that look like through adoption through race how do we incorporate race while understanding that's not the only component to someone's identity. Sure all you know first and foremost you have to have information quiet lately you know that they gimmick and Fujian and you've got many different. He's been part of that but first and lucky you have to actually happened concrete information you know that. If you're not delivered by the store and you don't just happen upon our country so we've got to talk about and have a clear. At least it in my clarity possibly can in concrete information like you know this is why it's so important that we have. You know a new way to look at original pursuit advocates and monetize person can get and feel birth certificate because. You don't. With the birth certificate content information right now health history about. You know read and ethnicity and all these things that are ingredient to forming her identity though. You know what we've outfit without the toward the information that's really hard to start to build your identity. So I would always say that just. If your your parenting a child through adoption any adoption making sure you have as much information you possibly can. And to keep gathering information and you know I IE you know there's a lot of connections Q I am. Original family adore Palin the origin now then an adoptive family and film experience which is great. But there's still a lot of disconnect there are so I would just say personally got to start with the tools and information on lap another thing I love. Is DNA. I'm it's an expensive endeavor generally I wish it was cheaper and I wish every every young person in Foster care could do DNA for free. Yeah they feel like there's there's there's just such a richness that comes from. All right you know here is where I'm from in the world and not concrete that they emailing can take that away from anybody until I think those kind of cool. Are really a really great and then you at some point it has to realization come then there's there's certain pieces and parts. How they dandy who is adopted that they're just not going to get a grasp on and as well as you can with your with you again. I would say hey let's find out if mama tablet that is something I like. Basketball or are they saying well they did that this great sense of direction I don't know if you do you name it something really positive and good to get that information just in about race it's also about. The thing that making you to think you're good actor I would say that this that. A big. I'm a big idea this is the formation like any but impairing really are are much better equipped today to be able to get information that they connected to. And with that origin and you find those pieces of information that they can help a child. Form there right Danny in at some point or another apparent you have to say now this must be really hard. I knew who my. My biological parents my birth parent I I knew where they came from they told me stories like just acknowledging the fact that this is hard. Is also a big deal for our head right. Yeah absolutely yeah I think so many of us against or granite if we you know maintained. Placement and our families of origin and you take for granted the little nuggets of information that just. You find pretty seamlessly throughout your day as you grow up so you take it for granite once you find yourself you know adopting a child and trying ten. Given that information in a way that it's you know. Not going to be organic it's gonna take effort to a lot of effort on the parts of the parents primarily because I think a lot of times the professionals don't. Are handing over that information and you now. No and I think it'll feel this is the reality. You know cut a lot of a lot of one podcast they did or what people wrote and you know that they feel that. You know be your parents didn't or couldn't keep you that's part of identity formation right that is inherently bad. I did something wrong with me I mean we have to attract some of that in terms of you know just in even in the age appropriate ways help. Children understand. Circumstances beyond their control and can often be on a parent control that. That resulted in they're being. Having to be at you know a disconnect from one affiliate reconnect to the other hand right. No I mean we we we can't be afraid. To talk about these things. They we know. It it's hard but it like if we want to be healthy to me at the grown up have to be though one that go. In key these conversations. Within a false sense whether it was with empathy with it with heart with. An and get an understanding that we're we're not only gonna get right but if we're trying that will go a long way. Absolutely and something that you hadn't mentioned that I just I thought was super important it is when you were talking about parents having the conversations. I'm with their children inside a part of my question was how important is it to. Help a young person and understand their race in their culture if they feel like they don't. It doesn't matter to them how important is that do we. Do I could go ahead and still give them information to lie and find books do I take them to museums they like connecting to people. Or do I let them be and then when they're ready and at 25 bring that out. I have been think the Catholic got an ill informed idea and I think that when it comes to parent that's like. It is taken the easy way out quite frankly I you know and not ready or that interest that look at what. You know if you are if you are organically and authentically interest in differences of race class and culture and you will now embrace. All of these different ideas we know. On that because you want to could your parents of the kid of color and you're not. A person of color like you have to be organic you can't just be transactional can't just be. Robotic if it were the talk about that now though you have to you have to be interest that you have to look you have to have. People of color as your friend you have to be putting yourself out in the world that they could you. Not it doesn't need to know we have to include your kit. Like you know and you can may not want to beat you in Greek economy this certainly. There's certainly validity to that great and but at this think they feel like if you can't make this. Part of your life you you talk about things that happen. In the news then and right now what's happening so much around doesn't it with our with people of color and an edu. You cannot. Just ignore that and and again like it had earlier like some of these incidents are opportunity for us that they. While it's really painful for me see that I. And I'm your personal car how how about you like it was a radio equipment is there anything you want talk about here or. Any kid and and and you and I would say that adopted kids how big ears are always good thanks for yup they're only hearing. So if you're having a conversation with me Betty Lou marry again whoever you talk to our friend our people on the phone whenever. Like if you're talking about standing up in an equity and mean and being and empowered and and and Q and if you are sad about something. If you weren't really authentic we doing this. Your kid I think is going to start you really eat beef it. I looked even a little bit like Alec thank you wanna talk like that it it left transactional it's really authentic and it embedded in your life. He got a really good chance that your kid's gonna wanna kind of explore some of that with you that you are the leader and it knocked them. I think that's so powerful and I think it also gets the part that. For a kid he would be scary tended to want to ask about that guys I think there's there's some. Feared that the parents will feel I do not do you don't appreciate them out you wanna have to worry Anwar. Or they you're gonna hear something about erasing you don't why core you know you hear that negative. And stayed Muslim related to your race and so he. I have to ask congregation that nobody felt like if I find not only child and right that's having that conversation. Now hole. Apron you just reminded me. I'm looking back growing up. Grew up in a rural town it's a very conservative town but my parents you know we're always very liberal very. Open an an an iMac queer individual and my parents never sat me down and said. We'll do what ever will love you had no matter what you know we don't think anything's around when being gay or anything like that. It was. Just part of our life they had queer friends you know we watched movies with queer individuals and it wasn't that it was. Like you were saying it wasn't that it was robotic or you know purposeful it was just. In general. I understood that. People are different everything's okay and and it made it a lot less awkward for me because I then have to ask those questions as much yes which would have been. To opera for cardiac creek. Well look and then in the founder of donor for exactly that example couldn't be more. Representative what I was saying like if you are the culture of your family like it every family court little bit different right culture here family is one of hey we talk about stuff. We talk about hard stuff. We don't shy away from past discussions and look I think that's for every feel like they because if you're not. Really if you living in this country right now in your night. The least bit concerned about what is happening. I don't know what to say about that but I would say now the time we're Philly beat the star really having much more. It gets real conversations about. What they think I don't have to agree. They have to they have to be treated so they can be good between war. Who you were really authentically work and if you didn't need to have a conversation about it it just speak with their feet that's exactly what I'm talking. Axle that. Yep and I and I think that it's so important and I liked. That talking about the identity formation included more than just the race race is such a big. Think right now and I think that though the world seems is scary it's also an interest in time to hear so many things coming. Up then we kind of have fled. Barry left Barry for so long and go. This is the perfect opportunity for parents to start having those conversations I I wanted to disagree with you April netted. It should not be up to the child I think similar to a burn on the kids than if they want this thing you come to me. Dom whereas we don't give them those options and other things that we know to be important for their development and so I actually think that that's something that. We should consider. As we continue working with our young people so. We have to go to commercial break the only come back let's wrap up with some cost action what can we do our community to help better engage. I'm in the transracial conversation how can we help support our parents. Our community and our children so when we return on fostering hope. We will wrap up with April in woody from Donaldson adoption institute. Who. Welcome back to fostering hope. I'm your host beat the Ross threw my cohost different towns and we've been talking he put in windy from the Donaldson adoption institute about transracial adoptions identity formation. I'm cultural competence so April as we close out this. Story today can you talk to us how for those. Parents for those individuals like me who maybe don't happen organically listed them. About having conversations recent quarter in class how do I start maybe I want to maybe you've opened my eyes would what do I do to get started with making it. But changed had better be better informed. Sure I mean I. I think first it like. Read you know I get you know it gets through Catholic history under about current. Seriously look at. It means today there is in the there is not a lack of of information. For us to learn. About. History. And I think get this start to hold yourself accountable another accountable you know when you think about. This idea of every day being plugged into. Now you are a multi cultural fit right you if if you're not senior health represented in. In the images around you or. You know your beat your world that you took place that you go on you need to make sure those people. That are making those images hear from you that you you do I think. Sort of have to become more of an activist advocate and some level. Huge cavity cricket and your family could make sure you know what they're learning in school. You can make sure that your. Your understanding. You know the extended family Europe and Europe extended family members ideas of different for the great the culture. Where your children are spending time with friends and family there where the conversation happening around them you have to. Hate eat it this step the next step of accountability M for yourself and other people and without that I feel like you know we are just sort of transaction. You know Trent acting and and and that's just two days you know I always used this this this this these brave betrayed them. It now all you know. Our our children of color. Need. You know physical and emotional safety we have to ensure that physical emotional safety of our children of color today especially for parents and we are. A race. And that and that should mean that you really have to go the extra mile. And an inmate in and then sometimes that means making yourself extremely uncomfortable my mom. It came to ensure that physical and emotional safety of it. And I think there's also opportunities for the traditional families came lays out of the same color to start having those conversations as well. I remember hearing a coworker talk about it now. Her son whose biological turned why having. Experience yes someone talking negatively about someone from a different race and having a conversation with his mom coming home talking. But her about that and you know she didn't check down as you know that's our problem when I'm black you know arm but really meaningfully how do you defend someone how do you advocate for some mad then. Isn't about you but you still feel because you're human and this is something that's in debt and an injustice and needs to be addressed. Why again I think parenting if you know more any really of the night against think that it you know you don't have to be. You know. Fighting unit returned here that there is there Gary is still working dale and you know. If it be if he didn't really understand like getting into this. You know. Played her of being a multi cultural film late today. It's like EEU fast track that you know you know have a tough conversation between yourself in places where you feel. In the minority. You know backfield trio. Because and and try it out like you know we've we've all been in situations where something that would unjust what's happening. Even in line at the grocery store yeah and it those kind of remained silent at the time through week. Let those things go I would challenge every parent that listening though parents who are already doing that in the territory not done that yet. To do something that makes them feel comfortable on the on behalf of someone else who. It not being treated fairly health care who that person and we have to be Catholic app I'm telling you what your kid he's standing up for other people. That's huge yeah you actually getting up for them. You know. That's amazing device. And so would do you it within the don't adoptions to where do you guys see this conversation how's it being shaped over the next. By here's what would you like to see this conversation go. While I think it is how. Have to be expanded I'm making this idea of like you said something about like you know where we were talking about seeing family right you. Is it you know it won't we've known about adoption all the gear that we learn to know through the twenty years of research. Now makes us feel very. Equip and empower and say look. It's not just about adoption process can take every family say has its challenges and we really do you have to take what we've learned here and and make sure that. All systems that welcome families and children schools hospitals. And businesses write that. Welcome children who feel they have to see family pay for what it really is which is. Is not always the traditional family and until we start getting the language writing making sure that. We're acknowledging differences and healthy weight is. Verses you know either not seen them or you know making them the punchline the dramatic headline or whatever else that is that I'm healthy. Then will we really eaten. Are moving things forward so I think it is a much broader conversation. About family today which encompasses different different class and culture different. I'm the only form different ways in which you build a family. And and even include people who don't have children like that are still. They'll wait for you they would they bond together so I think it's much bigger than them this topic although this topic. Fuel fill much of battle between you know we need to do and make sure that education systems that again that welcomed children of families are on top of it and don't. You know make it any harder on our families than it after they. Often so any final words of wisdom. That you would challenge I you've given us a lot of great information on a great places to get started. And is there anything else that you would like for us to know for the audience now before we close out. And I think the food you know that this. I've always heard you mention the pulpit before they just love the kid you know in the end and everything is going to be fine I think what I would say is that am I mean love is they've scary. Essential ingredient it is an essential ingredient in maybe you can be essential ingredient I don't I don't all I don't ever want anybody to think that that isn't. You know transformational because like as you mentioned at the game that showed me the music you want him that love Q and and so I don't I I I just wanted to say that love is a big part of this weekend and and when we stand up and when we have these. These tough conversations were actually acting out of love. And we love ourselves trapped families actually for the other people around the creek in what they're just a little bit to make it. If somewhat less contentious but really operate with the intention of loving. You know a loving kindness. And I think that get that a little bit at this there's also room for anger and and it happened in our fifth in the air a little room for that Q but I. I'd like to see more of that you know that after the vote you know the reason why we're standing up is because we love ourselves and we love the people around us and we want there to be equity and fairness. That's absolutely that's at an absolutely great point it's the broadening. That terminology I'm I'm I'm not gonna let you inside the house and tell you that it's great because one day you're gonna leave. I'm a lefty so much that when you go onto the world you also feel represented and protected them off the ball. And so. In the senate I mean me an email that that is exactly right it really loving our kids really loving them is really feed them and standing up for them at every possible point. That we can't. Absolutely will thank you so much for being with us today April we really appreciated. I'm and we look forward to hearing more about what Donaldson is going to be doing in the future and continue this conversation. And you. Thank you so what is is. It's an honor and I mean I'm big fan of other working. Paint Q you've been listening to fostering hope brought to you by Foster adopt connect. A comprehensive regional advocacy and support center for abused and neglected children and parents caring for them. To learn how to care for mobile children or help kids in other ways please visit Foster adopt dot org or fall Foster dock connector on FaceBook and Twitter. Until next time please get out there and do something everyone has a part to play in helping our children thrive. And you'll hear more from us on fostering hope.